Man Bear Woman Lizard Spock
A collection of candid, controversial community conversations on the battle of the sexes
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Thank you to everyone who contributed and participated in the following conversations.
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Buckle in because you are in for a massive drill down deep dive - and the pun is always intended.
We covered a lot of ground - and a lot of strong, solid viewpoints were shared.
This was an open discussion across many posts and notes from a cadre of contributors with conflicting opinions that I have collated here for your review, amusement, thoughts, feelings, shits, giggles, and whiplash.
Come at this with an open mind and feel free to chime in to give all of us your thoughts in the comments….
Epiphanic Popcorn and Rude Awakenings
In response to part of my recent conversation round up Epiphanic Popcorn and Rude Awakenings,
restacked the article and wrote, “The women who are saying they would take a bear over a man won't have bears or men. All they will have is cats. Lots and lots of cats. No man at their side to face life's storms. No children helping them in their final years. Just cats.” replied, “If women online and in your life are choosing a bear over a man, reflection is needed. No ‘feminism’ or agenda can be blamed for this distrust, a lot of men are not looking in the mirror or at their bros, instead they blame women for feeling that way. Why do they choose a bear? My daughters ex-husband is a case in point, a den of bears would be preferable to that monster.”Christopher replied, “Yes, absolutely they bear (get it?) some of the blame. And then there are also specific forces outside of the specific men and women—economic, social, cultural, political, technological, dietary, ideological. It is a toxic stew. The men need to look in the mirror. The women need to look in the mirror. Then they need to look at each other. Then kiss. Then they need to turn and stand shoulder to shoulder and, with righteous anger, defeat those external forces. Then they need to have thousands of babies and teach them to defeat them too. Enough is enough.”
Christopher asked if this was an urban legend and Jim replied, “You know how it is with them memory holing things they want to deny ever happened.”
said, “Power and influence in the world are changing in a big way. It’s easy to stay stuck in what you know and how you understand things. Change is only getting quicker. Let your beliefs break. Let your understanding dissolve. Let your ideas compost into soil. It’s okay to be scared. We got you,” to which Christopher replied with the status of his own endeavors at composting. wrote, “I say stay single until they find the right one for them, I feel like prenuptial agreements are important for women to get nowadays due to a certain type of woman and now men being about all kinds of insidious divorce crap that is like psychological torture and abuse so I get why people foreswear marriage and stay single after being hurt.”Christopher replied, “We need to work on this as a culture and species. The future babies are depending on it! I will write about this.”
And Jessica replied:
I agree, trying to leave the domestic legal abusers is demoralizing. They are the Marxists of marriage lol. Trust me. Shit people and they use kids as their last weapon of control it's gross. On the Rhizo front Demi The Starfire Codes had a great meme when trying to deal with these advantage taking dirty John and Jill types who are con men and are just crazy makers. So I see why a lot of women who are hesitant about getting into relationships are about oh give me the bear but honestly it's due to the ones who fall for the battle of the sexes in the first place, I think women want to trust men a lot of bad apples out there leave them just being as bad as the men are eventually. So it's easier to be alone or to focus on themselves which then leads to self obsession and selfishness which let's face it a lot of men are. The battle of the sexes psyop is just stupid and I am always left wondering if all the discord we see now was planned or just an unintended consequence (that nobody really seems to want to address or work on, especially the domestic legal abusers family destroying divorce crowd.-who are shit humans no matter how nice they appear bc they're power drunk). Tough place we are in bud as women and society right now due to “norms” that aren't normal.
I restacked Jessica’s comment and replied:
responded, “Pow! To the moon and right to the point. Most of us have been privy to complete nonsense our entire lives. That’s a sad commentary with a great opportunity.”The problem is with energetic polarity dynamics and the correction of it via pendulum swing instead of finding natural stasis.
Most cannot act from their REAL and TRUE energies because they were born indoctrinated into ways of thinking and feeling about their own energy that stem mainly from ongoing cultural acts of war meant to hijack natural ways of being to cause people to run counter to who they are, thereby causing them to become impotent and ineffective, or conversely, people thought these inclinations were natural, realized they weren’t working, and turned to others who attempted to deconstruct and gamify interaction for a living, getting people culture-wide to behave in a way that pendulum swung in the other direction but is still CONTRIVED and NOT REAL.
Either way - on either end of that pendulum - unrealistic, contrived behavior begets weird power struggles that no one knows how to navigate.
People need to understand that most people preaching sexual dynamics are just pick up artists who were former dorks who took data and gamified social cues.
Beyond teaching you how to go hot and cold on someone to maintain someone’s interest temporarily out of their sheer confusion and their drive to solve puzzles when confusion cannot be rectified, these people cannot assist you in learning what it takes to grow and maintain something real - because they have never had something real themselves.
Past the act of pulling a woman and subsequently keeping her nice and confused in order to maintain her addiction to puzzle solving, which stems from wanting to rectify the confusion and find a state of internal peace and safety, he has no idea how to ground that and stabilize it in order to keep it because it was never built on top of anything solid in the first place, even in his own life. It was all mirroring of social cues and perpetuation of the confusion state. There’s no there there. Everything past that point is fall off because nothing is REAL.
The games taught to the men who saw a need to learn how to gamify their behaviors to rectify their dorkdom continue until the woman gets bored of being treated terribly, left in a state of constant confusion - and she leaves.
This never magically evolves into reality because it was never anchored in reality in the first place.
And then people feel inclined to, in turn, gamify THAT. (The legal system, etc., as Jessica J was pointing out in her comment.)
It’s a fuckloop of attempting to reorient oneself out of nonsense by applying more nonsense to the original nonsense, thereby manufacturing more nonsense, like I was telling Stone Bryson in the man vs. bear part of the article.
It needs to STOP.
And - especially if you’re a “conservative” who has been duped into spending all of your time deconstructing the cultural deconstructionists to try to make sense of their nonsense…. BIG SIGH… you are only ADDING TO the nonsensical deconstructionism by engaging with it and generating even more nonsense.
There is no making sense out of crazy. Call it crazy and stop.
You are giving it power by treating it like it’s real.
Stop. Detach. Call it out for being nonsense without engaging with it. Be ABOVE engaging with it.
Additional hyperintellectualized deconstructionism does not combat deconstruction. It only adds fuel to the fire. The heady cultural commentaries are just adding to the artifice that would do so much better to be stripped away, not by turning something heart-driven into a hyperintellectualized, energetically imbalanced nightmare that continues to chip away at and further destroy interaction.
If you don’t want people to wear masks anymore, try taking off the one you call your face.
Just be real.
I thanked him and replied:
responded, “As a former pick-up artist, who finally got tired of the game and checked out from it long ago? Demi drops some serious fire here…”I think the best thing that most people could ever do to come back to center, to figure out who they really are and what their own energy is really like, is simply to do an energetic detox in which one would remove oneself completely from everyone else’s energy - temporarily - and just sit in one’s own energy, and get reacquainted with the energy of self from scratch with no other influences upon it.
Knowing where we end and someone else begins is super important.
Many people grow up without ever establishing or learning how to establish healthy boundaries because they came up in family systems that taught them that their energy can and should be offered up for total drainage and abuse from everyone else and that their only value was in providing a constant source of that energy to get sucked up by others without any chance to use that energy on the self in order to replenish, refill, grow, learn, and change.
Growth and self-care are never selfish - you are of no use to yourself or anyone else if you’ve got no steam left in you because you’ve allowed everyone else to drain you out.
Seriously - what are they going to do? Stick a straw in your corpse? That’s where this behavior leads.
To be perfectly candid about that, our men age out and die too young for exactly that reason. Our women who shoulder too much burden without help, who feel compelled to live in their masculine energy in order to survive, suffer the same fate.
From the vantage point of having developed the ability to recognize what constitutes our own energy vs. someone else’s, it becomes possible to develop strong, healthy energetic boundaries without allowing anyone else to encroach upon them.
From there, you know who you are and you are able to develop an extraordinary amount of healthy, grounded confidence in who you are because you have taken the time to get to know yourself.
You know your own strengths and weaknesses - and you commit to working on them both.
Improving your weaknesses gives you balance while improving your strengths gives you value.
Balance and value turn you into a person you are inherently proud of having become, someone who has earned his/her own respect and therefore will not tolerate disrespect from anyone else.
And by the time you’re ready to connect with others, you love the person you’ve become so much that you would rather hold out to form a true, meaningful bond with someone who has complementary energy rather than to settle for someone you have tricked to care about you via manipulation of their feelings through contrived social cues and the fostering of a sickening confusion they feel in dire need to rectify, someone you have jack shit in common with other than a trauma bond you have manufactured out of forcing a false connection through the use of nothing but smoke, mirrors, confusion, and tears.
No love can ever be built upon the latter.
But on top of the former, on top of genuine energetic resonance and mutual respect, you can literally build empires.
Why not teach THAT instead?
I thanked him and replied:
I had good friends who were.
They were like big brothers to me - and taught me to both recognize and deflect.
In my 20s, they would veto my boyfriends and tell me WHY.
They’d be the first to tell you it’s How Not To Outwardly Dork 101.
But there’s no substance beneath it.
It doesn’t lead to happiness.
There’s no joy in it.
It’s a literal denial of who a person is at their core, of achieving any sort of sustained self-love or pride in what one can become, and the energetic mismatch only generates pain, inside and out.
A natural match will always trump an empty pull. There’s no there there.
Stone replied, “Took me far too long to learn this lesson… but at least I DID learn it,” and I said, “What we’re taught to want doesn’t always reflect who we are. Especially if our personalities run counter to the mainstream. To think we’d be happy faking the funk with outwardly attractive normies who have no compatibility with us and minimal depth at best for the rest of our lives is just silly. The rest of the boxes need checking too. ☺️🙏🏻💜💫”
said, “Thank you. I always knew it was hollow but the way you put it strengthens my understanding. And my feeling of gratitude for finding a woman who outwardly dorks with me constantly, and our two little dorks,” and I replied, “How empty would it feel to be with a person who doesn’t understand you or share your interests? I’m glad you’ve found that! 🙏🏻💜💫”At which point,
wrote a post called Forget the Bear. Enough with the Video Games. Make Babies! in response to my Epiphanic Popcorn and Rude Awakenings, both of which you should read before continuing on to the next section….Ready? Here we go….
Pumping and Dumping
Topically related but unrelated to the original posts,
posted a note, stating the following:"Pumped and Dumped" is a derogatory term used to shame women for falling victim to manipulative tactics done by some men solely seeking sexual gratification. We're fed up with this demeaning behaviour, and that's why I propose a new rallying cry: “Less Pumping, More Dumping”
Less SEX more Dumping of men not worthy of us.
Let's breathe life back into relationships by demanding mutual respect and meaningful connections. It's about flipping the script and making it clear that men must prove themselves worthy of our trust and respect before intimacy is even considered. It's time to put an end to being used and start prioritizing our own self-worth and empowerment.
said:I think I get what she is trying to say here, that sex should be taken more seriously, approached with passion tempered by wisdom… and on that, I agree - by BOTH genders.
Where I get tripped up is the use of the language that men should ‘prove themselves worthy.’ That - I’m sure inadvertently - reduces the prospect of sex to a transactional act, like some kind of glorious reward for being ‘good enough.’ Many men (and more than a few women) are fed up with that paradigm, and are checking out of dating altogether because of it.
One should not have to prove themselves ‘worthy’ before sex is ‘granted’ - instead, both should prove to themselves and each other that they compatible spiritually, intellectually, and emotionally before they agree to ‘share’ in the act of sex.
Still, I do see her overall point - at least I think I do - thus a degree of understanding and grace.
And yeah, ‘pumped and dumped’ is a vile phrase, and any man who uses it is probably a piece of garbage to be avoided…
Of course you’re correct. There is no “fixing” things, at least not in the way that most people would assume.
The problems between the sexes are mostly a farce, both sides are given 24/7 bad advice, akin to the nonsense in Cosmo. People are fake, and that’s the biggest problem.
On a side note, I’ve never heard of pump and dump, outside of the stock market.
Using that in a relationship; that’s masterclass douche lingo!
All of this incited a conversation carried out among many threads in which most were replying to state that feminism devalues women and that one should wait to have sex until marriage or until the goal of said pumping is to pump out a baby.
I responded, “Literally everything is built on a foundation of trust. All relationships, period. Without trust, there’s nothing. I wouldn’t be able to do that, no matter how much “pumping” or “dumping” was involved. (God, that sounds terrible.)” And I laughed.
To which
replied, “To even boil it down like she did was a ploy imo, yes our Moms were right, yes sex is holy and sacred with your spouse, yes you are a biochemical being and modern courting and communication has led to a myriad of issues in the battle of the sexes that all the psyops produced but pumping and dumping. Really, I agree with you Demi it just sounds nasty. When we were younger it was hit it an quit it, doesn't sound as gross, in theory it is and it's just dudes who are a hairs breath away from being predators imo. What do I know though? 😁 Don't let unworthy men hit it. I think this is primarily why ladies were choosing the bear, bc of douche bags that inspired the phrase pump and dump. Lol.”
I responded the following:
said, “Spot freaking on. At this point men thinking they're all of a sudden Paul freaking Bunyan is kinda hilarious and I'm just going to let a bear eat me and put me out of my misery. Lol”That’s not what my mom taught me.
My mom grew up in the generation where men had begun to cease to behave in manly ways and she taught me self-reliance in the event I couldn’t rely upon the men around me to step up for me, the majority of whom were not trained to be men, but to be appreciative and notice when they did because those are the ones worth keeping around.
She’d also ask, “Why in the fuck were you out in the woods by yourself in the first place?”
And honestly, she’d be right.
If you know there is unavoidable danger, you walk in as prepared as possible. Anything else is needlessly putting yourself in jeopardy.
Most men were trained not to step up, to avoid their “toxic masculinity,” and to look the other way instead of facing conflict or adversity head on, so expecting a random man to step up for you, taking probability, disposition, and the current times into account, is worse odds than Russian roulette.
The hilarious part about that is that you’re more likely to find that kind of man out hiking where there are bears than you would in a city or the suburbs.
But let’s face it: The majority of women have been harassed and called a bitch or worse when they’ve rejected a man. The majority of women have also been sexually assaulted and/or felt like they couldn’t say no at one point or another during the course of their lives.
So, on that level, I can see where “choosing the bear” resonated with those women and they said what they said for effect - not literally - but to demonstrate that they don’t feel safe around most men, the majority of whom, ironically, they are not meeting out on a hike in the woods where there are bears.
While we’re being honest: Most women wouldn’t know how not to get mauled by a bear in the same way that most women don’t know how to defend themselves against the advances of predatory men.
So, that’s the real problem.
Women need confidence, self-defense classes, survival classes, and a black belt in I’m Not Taking Anybody’s Shit.
Because, despite
feverpipe dreams to the contrary, it’s 2024, and the meek trad wife in a sundress in a wheat field who can’t stand up for herself is a sitting duck if she doesn’t have skills of her own, and especially when the probability is that she is around a majority of men who either can’t or won’t man up either because they shrugged it off or were never taught how. (We do not live in the 1860s. And most of us couldn’t handle it if we did.)With proper knowledge, skills, and attitude, the woman wouldn’t care if it was a man or a bear she ran into, period. Because knowledge and ability confer confidence in either situation while the act of even choosing between the man or the bear telegraphs that the woman in question is, in fact, tossing a coin between types of victimhood.
And these women are supposed to be empowered feminists?! Where is your power to exist in this world as a woman, period, in 2024 if you still can’t protect yourself?!
In all honesty, I wouldn’t be afraid of the man or the bear. If I confer that I am a victim to neither, I am much less likely to become one.
Also, I’m less worried about the guy out walking in the woods because, chances are, that dude is much likelier to ask me if I’m ok out in the woods by myself.
And that’s exactly the way it should be.
Otherwise, “Why in the everloving monkey fuck are you out in the woods by yourself?!?!”
And Mom is absolutely right.
I laughed and replied, “You can keep Paul Bunyan. I’m holding out for Batman.”
said, “It seems the attempt by women to maximize the perceived value of their partner is not necessary pathological in nature unless it is also paired with flagrant promiscuity. The dismal hypergamy situation is directly linked to a single, high value man’s ability to tie up many women in a cycle of dating, in a way which keeps them off limits to other men. In a world of strict pair bonding, you don’t get nearly so many men left out entirely, simply due to the mathematics of it. Within that strict pair bonding culture, maximizing partner value is just good strategy.”I'm holding out for Mickey from Natural Born Killers or Patrick Bateman 🤣🤣 Just kidding. I'd rather just keep being a hermit. The two I mentioned would at least kill the bear and Mickey would set the world on fire for Mallory. Have you noticed that these women in the churches who push this Proverbs 37 woman thing and guys who act like that's what they want but don't realize the EQ, financial resources and care and protection that go into even being able to allow a woman to be that all are kind of missing the point of male and female relationships too. It starts with the man being the man. If he's not going to buy you a steak and take you out, if he's going to be a hypercritical little baby man, if he's going to act like he's God's gift then just keep it moving. None of us are all that and we all have flaws but what I have learned is that there's really bad evil people who are going to critique everything on purpose so fuck em, and if they feel bold enough to be hypercritical of you then let them have it back or not at all. Like I'm at a point where I'm actually ok with my solitude. It gets lonely sometimes but it's better than some crazy making critical man who has the emotional or intellectual bandwidth of a fucking flea. Pump n dump here could change her perspective to the males and women could be just as shallow and say only good for a ride on the baloney pony and kick them out and along the happy fucking trails they go. Beware of hypercritical men or men that think they are the authority on even beginning to understand what it takes to be a woman. It's looking like some are trying but it seems a lot more women are understanding what men go through than vice versa. The lumberjack song is funny though.
Emily said, “This is about women feeling pressured to have sex to maintain a man's interest, and men exploiting this. Seeking commitment before sex empowers women and promotes healthier, more respectful relationships. I'm not seeking a wealthy partner; I've always aspired to be a homemaker and haven't pursued a career. Please don't assume I'm motivated by status or money. Additionally, the photo doesn't reflect my personality—I'm naturally submissive and nurturing.”
Michael replied:
Emily, this is not the Central Asian Steppe in the 13th century. Women completely control access to sex. If they are getting used and abused, they have only their own choices to blame. They certainly can’t blame the 80%+ of men that they are avoiding so they can be in the rotating cast of several rich Chad’s harems.
Consider the OnlyFans phenomenon. If men controlled access to sex, they would not be paying significant fractions of their income to masturbate to pictures of strange women, they would be actually having sex with them — and spending less to do it.
There is no argument between us about the desirability of both women and men eschewing fornication, but waiting for “commitment” is meaningless. If you are having sex outside of marriage you are fornicating, and there’s no ‘safe’ level of pre-marriage commitment, especially for women, whose qualifications for marriagiability plummet when they lose their virginity. Nobody wants to marry a woman who has slept with half the neighborhood just because she’s suddenly holding out on the guy she’s with. That guy, if he has any self respect, is going to find another strumpet who will put out on the regular, or else find a low-to-no-mileage model to marry. The genie cannot be put back into the bottle.
If you say that you are naturally submissive and nurturing, I believe you. I wouldn’t write this long of a reply if I didn’t think it was true. But you’re the one who chose to use the seductive girl-boss photo and write your post in a hectoring tone.
I am not laying all the blame at your feet. You grew up in a gynocentric society where women are increasingly exalted, while expected to sacrifice nothing. You may reject feminism intellectually, but the attitude is baked in. How could it be different? Every one of us has problems like this. Rejecting the modern world is hard and fraught with struggle. You will unconsciously want to slip back into the mode you want to reject, just like habitual sin. This is why we need to give each other honest counsel and pray for one another.
Emily replied, “I don’t think you understand what average men will go through just to get sex. The lies, manipulation, guilt tripping…I think you are short sighted and probably blinded by your own issues with dating. I will be coming out with a new podcast soon about manipulation, you should follow me and listen, you might learn a thing or two about how guys act. Also some women are so brainwashed they believe waiting until marriage is “weaponizing” sex. Help me!”
Michael responded, “You are femsplaining. My ‘issues with dating’ is that I have been married for 13 years and have two kids. I know very well that men will act deviously to get sex. And simple logic tells me that they wouldn’t have to do this if women weren’t in control of sexual access,” to which Emily said that this is not her fault.
Michael said, “Everyone must answer for their own bad conduct, but we must also answer, in degree, for everyone else’s. The things we do, the examples we show, affect others. Sin poisons the whole world. You did not create this situation, but laying the blame at the feet of men when it is women who control access to sex and when their insanely hypergamous attitudes are at the root of the problem, is prolonging it.”
said:It’s pretty awful making sex transactional and not about love or at least fond mutual release. Lording sex over a partner is not a great relationship dynamic. Whether it’s over “trade” (hoarder ex tried to trade cleaning he didn’t do for sex he didn’t bother for me to be awake for) or incompatible sex drive, it’s a soul-crushing confidence killer for the one who feels like they constantly have to beg.
“Worthy” and “earning” sex is a slippery slope. Holding ourselves to a higher standard allows us to decline sex from anyone we please at any time. Anyone confused about that should review consent again. Presuming it is somehow owed/to be earned is transactional and gross. Twisting it around by either gender (incels and princesses come to mind) is well, twisted. It pressures people pleasers into doing something they do not want.
Along with pump and dump and hit it and quit it. I’ve heard women called “split tail”, “house mouse”, etc… and so on used by men who were using them for sex and housekeeping with no real affection from the men doing it. These women hoped/thought they were girlfriends and fiancees. If everyone understands and is on board with such an arrangement, great! In my experience, people lie to get what they want, then lie to themselves afterwards. Those who go in with authenticity get hurt by people playing stupid games. There is a whole industry around these games giving great advice how to trap a meal ticket. Women aren’t the only ones playing it, either. My ex took me for plenty. It is predatory to be unclear or intentionally mislead someone into thinking they are starting a relationship to get sex. One might argue that sex is not consensual if consent was given on the basis of lies. People can be deceptive, so that leaves it up to us to have discernment and get to know people a little better.
If you got picked up in a bar after 15 minutes of conversation, he probably isn’t building a life with you. I’m sex-positive, slut around all you want if you are wired for it! If like me, you get hurt or misled (I’m sure the Audhd helped with that) stop acting shocked when it happens when the only constant is yourself. Look at those patterns and establish some healthy boundaries. May I suggest getting to know someone before they use you like a gas tank? If not, you will stay on the same treadmill, end up with the same results, and people will tire of hearing about the drama.
I would be no less vile if I started calling my partner beef-dick and started making a bunch of demands (move those boxes, lick this box!). People have their own needs and desires. Nobody meant to be property to serve the needs of others. Nobody gets issued a white knight (your parents did you a disservice if they told you otherwise), nobody is owed sex - if you want sex you aren’t getting, try conducting yourself like someone people want to have sex with.
Be forthright, for fuck’s sake. If you are a prostitute, advertise your prices. If you think 3 months salary on your finger is any different, it’s not. If you aren’t up for the job of being a decent human, leave us alone. You have a hand.
What are your thoughts? Tell us below.
Special thanks to all those named or quoted above, as well as , , , , Biff McFly, , , , , , , , , , , , Jack Everly, , , , kano555, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , and for participating in these conversations.*
*If I missed anyone, my apologies - this was unintentional. Please leave a comment below and I will correct it! :)
..."People are fake, and that’s the biggest problem."...Ever wonder why? When a person is real, he cares not what others think, has no need to be better than others, and literally detaches from society in that he lives in it but is not part of it. Oops, I am not being politically correct, but I couldn't care less.
As a married woman, five children, and one divorce from a Peter Pan, then 20 years of marriage to a wonderful MAN - there are three things that matter: 1)Know YOURSELF and choose wisely. 2)Each other's well being is what defines "success" and 3)If either of you are struggling, see #2. Once you are married, you are no longer individuals, but conjoined twins. Sacrifice is necessary, but it can't be one sided. If one twin dies, so does the other. Make choices about how you behave and treat each other accordingly.